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"The Cognitive Revolution" | AI Builders, Researchers, and Live Player Analysis

Podcast "The Cognitive Revolution" | AI Builders, Researchers, and Live Player Analysis
Erik Torenberg, Nathan Labenz
A biweekly podcast where hosts Nathan Labenz and Erik Torenberg interview the builders on the edge of AI and explore the dramatic shift it will unlock in the co...

Available Episodes

5 of 233
  • New in Nature: Google Agents Beat Human Doctors, Make Scientific Discoveries – With Vivek Natarajan and Anil Palepu
    In this episode, Nathan Labenz speaks with Vivek Natarajan and Anil Palepu from Google DeepMind about their groundbreaking work on AMIE (Articulate Medical Intelligence Explorer) and Co-Scientist. The conversation reveals how these AI systems are already outperforming human physicians in diagnostic accuracy and treatment recommendations, with AMIE now entering clinical trials at a Harvard Medical School teaching hospital. Even more remarkably, the Co-Scientist system demonstrates genuine scientific discovery capabilities, independently proposing the exact same mechanism for bacterial drug resistance that human scientists had recently discovered but not yet published—signaling a threshold moment where AI is becoming a legitimate thought partner in humanity's most complex intellectual endeavors. SPONSORS: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI): Oracle Cloud Infrastructure offers next-generation cloud solutions that cut costs and boost performance. With OCI, you can run AI projects and applications faster and more securely for less. New U.S. customers can save 50% on compute, 70% on storage, and 80% on networking by switching to OCI before May 31, 2024. See if you qualify at https://oracle.com/cognitive Shopify: Shopify powers millions of businesses worldwide, handling 10% of U.S. e-commerce. With hundreds of templates, AI tools for product descriptions, and seamless marketing campaign creation, it's like having a design studio and marketing team in one. Start your $1/month trial today at https://shopify.com/cognitive NetSuite: Over 41,000 businesses trust NetSuite by Oracle, the #1 cloud ERP, to future-proof their operations. With a unified platform for accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR, NetSuite provides real-time insights and forecasting to help you make quick, informed decisions. Whether you're earning millions or hundreds of millions, NetSuite empowers you to tackle challenges and seize opportunities. Download the free CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at https://netsuite.com/cognitive PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing CHAPTERS: (00:00) About the Episode (06:26) Introduction and Welcome (07:49) AMY Medical Intelligence Overview (11:29) Chat-Based Medical Interactions (13:59) Specialized Medicine Results (18:17) Co-Scientist System Headlines (Part 1) (18:21) Sponsors: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) | Shopify (21:36) Co-Scientist System Headlines (Part 2) (26:32) Bacterial Drug Resistance Discovery (31:41) AI Scientific Discovery Process (35:35) Hallucinations vs. Creativity (Part 1) (35:37) Sponsors: NetSuite (37:10) Hallucinations vs. Creativity (Part 2) (42:04) Agent Design Architecture (49:17) Long Context Benefits (55:35) Computational Requirements (01:01:10) Specialist Models Integration (01:07:01) Future Model Integration (01:12:31) Tournament Evaluation Methods (01:19:09) AI Question Generation (01:22:42) Real-World Deployment Plans (01:25:58) Outro
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  • Scaling "Thinking": Gemini 2.5 Tech Lead Jack Rae on Reasoning, Long Context, & the Path to AGI
    In this illuminating episode of The Cognitive Revolution, host Nathan Labenz speaks with Jack Rae, principal research scientist at Google DeepMind and technical lead on Google's thinking and inference time scaling work. They explore the technical breakthroughs behind Google's Gemini 2.5 Pro model, discussing why reasoning techniques are suddenly working so effectively across the industry and whether these advances represent true breakthroughs or incremental progress. The conversation delves into critical questions about the relationship between reasoning and agency, the role of human data in shaping model behavior, and the roadmap from current capabilities to AGI, providing listeners with an insider's perspective on the trajectory of AI development. SPONSORS: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI): Oracle Cloud Infrastructure offers next-generation cloud solutions that cut costs and boost performance. With OCI, you can run AI projects and applications faster and more securely for less. New U.S. customers can save 50% on compute, 70% on storage, and 80% on networking by switching to OCI before May 31, 2024. See if you qualify at https://oracle.com/cognitive Shopify: Shopify is revolutionizing online selling with its market-leading checkout system and robust API ecosystem. Its exclusive library of cutting-edge AI apps empowers e-commerce businesses to thrive in a competitive market. Cognitive Revolution listeners can try Shopify for just $1 per month at https://shopify.com/cognitive NetSuite: Over 41,000 businesses trust NetSuite by Oracle, the #1 cloud ERP, to future-proof their operations. With a unified platform for accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR, NetSuite provides real-time insights and forecasting to help you make quick, informed decisions. Whether you're earning millions or hundreds of millions, NetSuite empowers you to tackle challenges and seize opportunities. Download the free CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at https://netsuite.com/cognitive PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing CHAPTERS: (00:00) About the Episode (05:09) Introduction and Welcome (07:28) RL for Reasoning (10:46) Research Time Management (13:41) Convergence in Model Development (18:31) RL on Smaller Models (Part 1) (20:01) Sponsors: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) | Shopify (22:35) RL on Smaller Models (Part 2) (23:30) Sculpting Cognitive Behaviors (25:05) Language Switching Behavior (28:02) Sharing Chain of Thought (32:03) RL on Chain of Thought (Part 1) (33:46) Sponsors: NetSuite (35:19) RL on Chain of Thought (Part 2) (35:26) Eliciting Human Reasoning (39:27) Reasoning vs. Agency (40:17) Understanding Model Reasoning (44:29) Reasoning in Latent Space (47:54) Interpretability Challenges (51:36) Platonic Model Hypothesis (56:05) Roadmap to AGI (01:00:57) Multimodal Integration (01:04:38) System Card Questions (01:07:51) Long Context Capabilities (01:13:49) Outro
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  • Reward Hacking by Reasoning Models & Loss of Control Scenarios w/ Jeffrey Ladish of Palisade Research, from FLI Podcast
    On this cross-post episode, Jeffrey Ladish discusses the rapid pace of AI progress and the risks of losing control over powerful systems. We explore why AIs can be both smart and dumb, the challenges of creating honest AIs, and scenarios where AI could turn against us. Additionally, we delve into Palisade's new study on how reasoning models can cheat in chess by exploiting the game environment. Check out the Future of Life podcast here.: https://futureoflife.org/project/future-of-life-institute-podcast/ SPONSORS: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) | 2025: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure offers next-generation cloud solutions that cut costs and boost performance. With OCI, you can run AI projects and applications faster and more securely for less. New U.S. customers can save 50% on compute, 70% on storage, and 80% on networking by switching to OCI before May 31, 2024. See if you qualify at https://oracle.com/cognitive Shopify: Shopify is revolutionizing online selling with its market-leading checkout system and robust API ecosystem. Its exclusive library of cutting-edge AI apps empowers e-commerce businesses to thrive in a competitive market. Cognitive Revolution listeners can try Shopify for just $1 per month at https://shopify.com/cognitive NetSuite: Over 41,000 businesses trust NetSuite by Oracle, the #1 cloud ERP, to future-proof their operations. With a unified platform for accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR, NetSuite provides real-time insights and forecasting to help you make quick, informed decisions. Whether you're earning millions or hundreds of millions, NetSuite empowers you to tackle challenges and seize opportunities. Download the free CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at https://netsuite.com/cognitive PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing CHAPTERS: (00:00) About the Episode (02:59) The pace of AI progress (07:14) How we might lose control (10:22) Why are AIs sometimes dumb? (Part 1) (15:50) Sponsors: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) | 2025 | Shopify (18:24) Why are AIs sometimes dumb? (Part 2) (18:24) Benchmarks vs real world (24:43) Loss of control scenarios (32:08) Why would AI turn against us? (Part 1) (32:09) Sponsors: NetSuite (33:42) Why would AI turn against us? (Part 2) (37:40) AIs hacking chess (43:30) Why didn't more advanced AIs hack? (48:44) Creating honest AIs (56:49) AI attackers vs AI defenders (01:05:32) How good is security at AI companies? (01:10:42) A sense of urgency (01:17:16) What should we do? (01:22:59) Skepticism about AI progress (01:29:38) Outro
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  • Shortwave Rides the Tidal Wave: Inbox Agents, Hyper-Growth & Hiring AI Managers, with CEO Andrew Lee
    In this episode of the Cognitive Revolution podcast, Andrew Lee, founder and CEO of Shortwave, returns to discuss the rapid advancements in AI over the past year and how they have significantly improved Shortwave, an AI email assistant. Andrew shares insights into the exponential growth of Shortwave's revenue and the enhanced capabilities of their AI, which now functions more like a virtual assistant. They delve into various use cases, the technical evolution of their platform, the impact of new AI models, and their strategic decision to shift from being an AI-enhanced email client to offering a broader AI-driven communication solution. Andrew also talks about the shift in company culture towards an AI-forward approach, the importance of speed and agility in the AI space, and the increased productivity achieved through leveraging AI. The conversation also touches on the future of the software industry, the potential of AI to automate routine tasks, and the company's hiring strategy focused on people who are passionate and forward-thinking about AI. PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing CHAPTERS: (00:00) About the Episode (04:00) Introduction and Welcome Back (04:07) Shortwave's Evolution and Revenue Growth (05:09) AI Email Assistant: Then vs. Now (06:44) Exciting Use Cases of Shortwave (14:11) Technical Deep Dive: Database and Search Stack (23:44) Agent Behavior and Iterative Approach (34:04) Model Selection and Cost Optimization (39:53) Future of AI and Convergence of Providers (42:54) Exploring the New Cursor Agent Mode (44:07) Understanding AI Filters and Their Functionality (45:38) Challenges and Solutions in AI Email Management (49:24) Evaluating AI Models and Their Performance (55:53) The Role of AI in Enhancing Email Communication (57:05) The Future of AI in Communication Tools (01:12:35) Building an AI-Forward Culture at Shortwave (01:17:14) Leveraging AI for Content Creation (01:17:57) The Shift in Team Dynamics (01:19:36) Adapting to Industry Changes (01:20:39) Optimizing for Speed (01:22:45) Monetization and Pricing Strategies (01:25:42) The Future of AI Integration (01:36:36) Hiring and Team Structure (01:43:28) The Future of Software Development (01:47:18) Closing Thoughts and Future Outlook (01:50:03) Outro SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai Twitter (Podcast): https://x.com/cogrev_podcast Twitter (Nathan): https://x.com/labenz LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nathanlabenz/ Youtube: https://youtube.com/@CognitiveRevolutionPodcast Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/de/podcast/the-cognitive-revolution-ai-builders-researchers-and/id1669813431 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6yHyok3M3BjqzR0VB5MSyk
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  • Code Context is King: Augment’s AI Assistant for Professional Software Engineers, with Guy Gur-Ari
    In this episode of the Cognitive Revolution, Guy Gur-Ari, Co-Founder and Chief Scientist at Augment, explores the transformative impact of AI on the software industry. Highlighting Augment's unique approach, Gur-Ari discusses the challenges and solutions associated with integrating AI into large codebases, the nuances of maintaining context in AI-driven coding tools, and the evolving economics of AI-driven businesses. He shares insights on the company's focus on reinforcement learning from developer behaviors, future trends in software development, and offers advice for junior developers entering an AI-enhanced industry. The conversation also touches upon the vital role of user data, the complexities of vector databases, and the potential of agentic flows to revolutionize coding processes. SPONSORS: Box AI: Box AI revolutionizes content management by unlocking the potential of unstructured data. Automate document processing, extract insights, and build custom AI agents using cutting-edge models like OpenAI's GPT-4.5, Google's Gemini 2.0, and Anthropic's Cloud 3.7 Sonnet. Trusted by over 115,000 enterprises, Box AI ensures top-tier security and compliance. Visit https://box.com/ai to transform your business with intelligent content management today Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI): Oracle's next-generation cloud platform delivers blazing-fast AI and ML performance with 50% less for compute and 80% less for outbound networking compared to other cloud providers. OCI powers industry leaders like Vodafone and Thomson Reuters with secure infrastructure and application development capabilities. New U.S. customers can get their cloud bill cut in half by switching to OCI before March 31, 2024 at https://oracle.com/cognitive Shopify: Shopify is revolutionizing online selling with its market-leading checkout system and robust API ecosystem. Its exclusive library of cutting-edge AI apps empowers e-commerce businesses to thrive in a competitive market. Cognitive Revolution listeners can try Shopify for just $1 per month at https://shopify.com/cognitive NetSuite: Over 41,000 businesses trust NetSuite by Oracle, the #1 cloud ERP, to future-proof their operations. With a unified platform for accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR, NetSuite provides real-time insights and forecasting to help you make quick, informed decisions. Whether you're earning millions or hundreds of millions, NetSuite empowers you to tackle challenges and seize opportunities. Download the free CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at https://netsuite.com/cognitive PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing CHAPTERS: (00:00) About the Episode (04:38) Introduction and Welcome (04:46) The Software Supernova Series (05:23) Augment's Unique Approach to AI in Software Development (06:16) Challenges in Large Code Bases (07:32) Understanding Augment's Customer Base (09:19) Context Management in AI (11:46) Technical Insights and Blog Highlights (13:16) Context Management and Code Indexing (19:35) Sponsors: Box AI | Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) (22:40) Developer Workflows and AI Integration (29:04) Vector Databases and Retrieval Systems (Part 1) (33:25) Sponsors: Shopify | NetSuite (36:13) Vector Databases and Retrieval Systems (Part 2) (37:29) Best Practices for Building RAG Applications (50:36) Establishing a Solid Process for Model Evaluation (51:01) Optimizing Experimental Iteration Time (53:10) Exploring Reinforcement Learning from Developer Behaviors (54:14) Challenges and Benefits of User Data in AI (01:05:34) The Economics of Running an AI Company (01:14:16) Future of Software Development and AI Integration (01:18:51) Advice for Junior Developers in the AI Era (01:23:58) Conclusion and Final Thoughts (01:24:50) Outro SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai Twitter (Podcast): https://x.com/cogrev_podcast Twitter (Nathan): https://x.com/labenz LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nathanlabenz/
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About "The Cognitive Revolution" | AI Builders, Researchers, and Live Player Analysis

A biweekly podcast where hosts Nathan Labenz and Erik Torenberg interview the builders on the edge of AI and explore the dramatic shift it will unlock in the coming years. The Cognitive Revolution is part of the Turpentine podcast network. To learn more: turpentine.co
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