Tristan Harris and Aza Raskin, The Center for Humane Technology
In our podcast, Your Undivided Attention, co-hosts Tristan Harris, Aza Raskin and Daniel Barcay explore the unprecedented power of emerging technologies: how th...
What Can We Do About Abusive Chatbots? With Meetali Jain and Camille Carlton
CW: This episode features discussion of suicide and sexual abuse. In the last episode, we had the journalist Laurie Segall on to talk about the tragic story of Sewell Setzer, a 14 year old boy who took his own life after months of abuse and manipulation by an AI companion from the company Character.ai. The question now is: what's next?Megan has filed a major new lawsuit against Character.ai in Florida, which could force the company–and potentially the entire AI industry–to change its harmful business practices. So today on the show, we have Meetali Jain, director of the Tech Justice Law Project and one of the lead lawyers in Megan's case against Character.ai. Meetali breaks down the details of the case, the complex legal questions under consideration, and how this could be the first step toward systemic change. Also joining is Camille Carlton, CHT’s Policy Director.RECOMMENDED MEDIAFurther reading on Sewell’s storyLaurie Segall’s interview with Megan GarciaThe full complaint filed by Megan against Character.AIFurther reading on suicide bots Further reading on Noam Shazier and Daniel De Frietas’ relationship with Google The CHT Framework for Incentivizing Responsible Artificial Intelligence Development and UseOrganizations mentioned: The Tech Justice Law ProjectThe Social Media Victims Law CenterMothers Against Media AddictionParents SOSParents TogetherCommon Sense MediaRECOMMENDED YUA EPISODESWhen the "Person" Abusing Your Child is a Chatbot: The Tragic Story of Sewell SetzerJonathan Haidt On How to Solve the Teen Mental Health CrisisAI Is Moving Fast. We Need Laws that Will Too.Corrections: Meetali referred to certain chatbot apps as banning users under 18, however the settings for the major app stores ban users that are under 17, not under 18.Meetali referred to Section 230 as providing “full scope immunity” to internet companies, however Congress has passed subsequent laws that have made carve outs for that immunity for criminal acts such as sex trafficking and intellectual property theft.Your Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology. Follow us on X.
--------
48:44
When the "Person" Abusing Your Child is a Chatbot: The Tragic Story of Sewell Setzer
Content Warning: This episode contains references to suicide, self-harm, and sexual abuse.Megan Garcia lost her son Sewell to suicide after he was abused and manipulated by AI chatbots for months. Now, she’s suing the company that made those chatbots. On today’s episode of Your Undivided Attention, Aza sits down with journalist Laurie Segall, who's been following this case for months. Plus, Laurie’s full interview with Megan on her new show, Dear Tomorrow.Aza and Laurie discuss the profound implications of Sewell’s story on the rollout of AI. Social media began the race to the bottom of the brain stem and left our society addicted, distracted, and polarized. Generative AI is set to supercharge that race, taking advantage of the human need for intimacy and connection amidst a widespread loneliness epidemic. Unless we set down guardrails on this technology now, Sewell’s story may be a tragic sign of things to come, but it also presents an opportunity to prevent further harms moving forward.If you or someone you know is struggling with mental health, you can reach out to the 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline by calling or texting 988; this connects you to trained crisis counselors 24/7 who can provide support and referrals to further assistance.Your Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology. Follow us on Twitter: @HumaneTech_RECOMMENDED MEDIAThe first episode of Dear Tomorrow, from Mostly Human MediaThe CHT Framework for Incentivizing Responsible AI Development Further reading on Sewell’s caseCharacter.ai’s “About Us” page Further reading on the addictive properties of AIRECOMMENDED YUA EPISODESAI Is Moving Fast. We Need Laws that Will Too.This Moment in AI: How We Got Here and Where We’re GoingJonathan Haidt On How to Solve the Teen Mental Health CrisisThe AI Dilemma
--------
49:10
Is It AI? One Tool to Tell What’s Real with Truemedia.org CEO Oren Etzioni
Social media disinformation did enormous damage to our shared idea of reality. Now, the rise of generative AI has unleashed a flood of high-quality synthetic media into the digital ecosystem. As a result, it's more difficult than ever to tell what’s real and what’s not, a problem with profound implications for the health of our society and democracy. So how do we fix this critical issue?As it turns out, there’s a whole ecosystem of folks to answer that question. One is computer scientist Oren Etzioni, the CEO of TrueMedia.org, a free, non-partisan, non-profit tool that is able to detect AI generated content with a high degree of accuracy. Oren joins the show this week to talk about the problem of deepfakes and disinformation and what he sees as the best solutions.Your Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology. Follow us on Twitter: @HumaneTech_ RECOMMENDED MEDIATrueMedia.orgFurther reading on the deepfaked image of an explosion near the PentagonFurther reading on the deepfaked robocall pretending to be President Biden Further reading on the election deepfake in Slovakia Further reading on the President Obama lip-syncing deepfake from 2017 One of several deepfake quizzes from the New York Times, test yourself! The Partnership on AI C2PAWitness.org Truepic RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES‘We Have to Get It Right’: Gary Marcus On Untamed AITaylor Swift is Not Alone: The Deepfake Nightmare Sweeping the InternetSynthetic Humanity: AI & What’s At Stake CLARIFICATION: Oren said that the largest social media platforms “don’t see a responsibility to let the public know this was manipulated by AI.” Meta has made a public commitment to flagging AI-generated or -manipulated content. Whereas other platforms like TikTok and Snapchat rely on users to flag.
--------
25:36
'A Turning Point in History': Yuval Noah Harari on AI’s Cultural Takeover
Historian Yuval Noah Harari says that we are at a critical turning point. One in which AI’s ability to generate cultural artifacts threatens humanity’s role as the shapers of history. History will still go on, but will it be the story of people or, as he calls them, ‘alien AI agents’?In this conversation with Aza Raskin, Harari discusses the historical struggles that emerge from new technology, humanity’s AI mistakes so far, and the immediate steps lawmakers can take right now to steer us towards a non-dystopian future.This episode was recorded live at the Commonwealth Club World Affairs of California.Your Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology. Follow us on Twitter: @HumaneTech_RECOMMENDED MEDIANEXUS: A Brief History of Information Networks from the Stone Age to AI by Yuval Noah Harari You Can Have the Blue Pill or the Red Pill, and We’re Out of Blue Pills: a New York Times op-ed from 2023, written by Yuval, Aza, and Tristan The 2023 open letter calling for a pause in AI development of at least 6 months, signed by Yuval and Aza Further reading on the Stanford Marshmallow Experiment Further reading on AlphaGo’s “move 37” Further Reading on Social.AIRECOMMENDED YUA EPISODESThis Moment in AI: How We Got Here and Where We’re GoingThe Tech We Need for 21st Century Democracy with Divya SiddarthSynthetic Humanity: AI & What’s At StakeThe AI DilemmaTwo Million Years in Two Hours: A Conversation with Yuval Noah Harari
--------
1:30:41
‘We Have to Get It Right’: Gary Marcus On Untamed AI
It’s a confusing moment in AI. Depending on who you ask, we’re either on the fast track to AI that’s smarter than most humans, or the technology is about to hit a wall. Gary Marcus is in the latter camp. He’s a cognitive psychologist and computer scientist who built his own successful AI start-up. But he’s also been called AI’s loudest critic.On Your Undivided Attention this week, Gary sits down with CHT Executive Director Daniel Barcay to defend his skepticism of generative AI and to discuss what we need to do as a society to get the rollout of this technology right… which is the focus of his new book, Taming Silicon Valley: How We Can Ensure That AI Works for Us.The bottom line: No matter how quickly AI progresses, Gary argues that our society is woefully unprepared for the risks that will come from the AI we already have.Your Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology. Follow us on Twitter: @HumaneTech_ RECOMMENDED MEDIALink to Gary’s book: Taming Silicon Valley: How We Can Ensure That AI Works for UsFurther reading on the deepfake of the CEO of India's National Stock ExchangeFurther reading on the deepfake of of an explosion near the Pentagon.The study Gary cited on AI and false memories.Footage from Gary and Sam Altman’s Senate testimony. RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODESFormer OpenAI Engineer William Saunders on Silence, Safety, and the Right to WarnTaylor Swift is Not Alone: The Deepfake Nightmare Sweeping the InternetNo One is Immune to AI Harms with Dr. Joy Buolamwini Correction: Gary mistakenly listed the reliability of GPS systems as 98%. The federal government’s standard for GPS reliability is 95%.
In our podcast, Your Undivided Attention, co-hosts Tristan Harris, Aza Raskin and Daniel Barcay explore the unprecedented power of emerging technologies: how they fit into our lives, and how they fit into a humane future.
Join us every other Thursday as we confront challenges and explore solutions with a wide range of thought leaders and change-makers — like Audrey Tang on digital democracy, neurotechnology with Nita Farahany, getting beyond dystopia with Yuval Noah Harari, and Esther Perel on Artificial Intimacy: the other AI.
Your Undivided Attention is produced by Executive Editor Sasha Fegan and Senior Producer Julia Scott. Our Researcher/Producer is Joshua Lash. We are a top tech podcast worldwide with more than 20 million downloads and a member of the TED Audio Collective.
USA