Fraser & Nabeel explore what it means to build great products in this new world of AI.
Two former founders, now VCs, have an off-the-cuff conversation with f...
Granola & The Art of Invisible AI - Christopher Pedregal
Nabeel and Fraser sit down for a round-table discussion with Chris Pedregal, founder and CEO of Granola, an AI note taking app, to discuss Granola’s evolution and product philosophy. Their conversation touches on the challenges of developing user-friendly AI products, and how to balance that with product vision. They also talk about what it’s like being a second-time founder, as well as if and when AI wearables will gain widespread adoption.
(00:00) - Christopher Pedregal - Granola & the Art of Invisible AI
(01:05) - Second time founder syndrome
(01:42) - The path to Granola
(04:13) - Starting by "playing"
(11:16) - The friend test
(12:25) - Product philosophy behind Granola
(16:25) - AI as Augmentor
(22:04) - Balancing beginner and expert users
(34:21) - Granola's Initial Launch and Challenges
(34:52) - Balancing Product Development and Market Fit
(35:58) - Where Granola is headed from here
(40:00) - Vertical AI vs. General Assistants, who wins where?
(42:44) - The Wisdom of Experts Era
(50:54) - AI passing judgement
(53:51) - Wearables role in AI
(01:00:25) - Social Dynamics and Privacy Concerns
(01:02:32) - The Need for New Norms and Labels
(01:03:01) - What else could be Granola-ized
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1:06:30
Distilling Lessons from AI in 2024
What lessons will we take from 2024's AI products into next year? How better to reflect on advancements in the field of AI over this past year than to ask AI itself? Today, Fraser and Nabeel use AI models like ChatGPT, Claude, and o1 to first look back and see if products and innovations of 2023 lived up to their hype in 2024. And to look at the show’s year in review, Nabeel puts these AI models to the test by feeding them episode transcripts and seeing which model produces a usable summary. Together, they also dive into the effectiveness of Google Gemini’s Deep Research tool, the rise of agentic computing in 2024, and whether products ever fundamentally change or just get constantly re-invented.
(00:00) - Introduction
(00:48) - Reflecting on a Year of AI Releases
(00:23) - The Rise of Agentic AI
(00:38) - Google Gemini’s Deep Research
(00:47) - Using AI Models to Review 2024 at Hallway Chat
(00:56) - The Role of Taste in Making Great AI Products
(00:06) - The Rollout of o1
(00:06) - WebSim - Self Expression Through Software
(00:36) - Same Products, Different Iterations
(00:39) - A Second Look at Apple Intelligence
(00:10) - Living Agentically with AI
(00:18) - Final Thoughts
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55:58
Coaching Up: Should your AI be teaching you how to use it?
Everywhere you turn, companies have shoved AI features into their products that no one is using. Today, Fraser and Nabeel ask each other—are there any AI features that you’re actually using in older products? Plus: How kids will be shaped using AI products daily. What would a fully unstructured Slack look like. AI email habits. Do we think incumbents will catch up with AI integrations? PREM framework for startup prioritization. Is this startups vs incumbents, or just startups vs the big llms?
(00:00) - Intro
(00:52) - Welcome to Hallway Chat
(01:05) - What have incumbents really done with AI?
(08:59) - Trends in AI integrations that work
(20:21) - Reflecting, it's still early
(23:42) - Creating AI that manages up
(28:47) - PREM: A framework for prioritization
(34:32) - Forget incumbents, how do startups fight fend off the LLMs?
(37:24) - What are the new horizontals?
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41:31
Q&A: Is NotebookLM an exception to a rule? When to copy? When are small improvements better than big bets? Will data privacy matter?
Open format Q&A this week. Fraser and Nabeel explore AI data privacy, the ethics of copying features, and maintaining innovation. They discuss enterprise data challenges, the importance of a strong product identity, and strategies for early-stage startups during fundraising season.
(00:00) - Open
(00:53) - Q&A Session Kickoff
(01:14) - The data you gather is your roadmap
(14:03) - The gravity of slowing down in your startup
(21:20) - Your quarterly goal: Something Fundamentally Changes
(21:57) - Low Risk, Low Outcomes
(24:31) - Large Organizations and Mediocrity
(30:58) - When to steal a feature?
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41:33
"Software should be soft" - Meter Command with Anil Varanasi
Join Fraser, Nabeel, and special guest Anil from Meter as they dive into the innovation behind Meter Command. Meter's new interface has been called the "future of software" and a far ranging interview talks about the problem of designing product around personas, how command interfaces bridge the gap between CLI and dashboards, the importance of owning your tech stack, how your data is your product roadmap, and the orientation to long term thinking while still staying on the cutting edge. Links* See a demo of Meter Command* There's a lot of fine work from Bret Victor on visualization and interfaces, but here's one to get you started* Geoffrey Litt's Malleable SW in the age of LLMs* Hunter Walk's post on OKRs post his stint at Google
(00:00) - Intro
(00:19) - Meter Command and the future of software
(03:36) - What we forget about software making
(06:39) - Models make you reassess your own product
(07:27) - Why aren't there more AI explorations in software?
(09:38) - The "efficiency era" of startups
(13:21) - Software should be soft
(17:13) - The problem of "persona building" software
(21:29) - Enterprise software is reporting
(22:37) - Your data is your product roadmap
(25:13) - Emersing in the trends of AI as a founder
(27:27) - From janky prototype to custom model building
(29:55) - "No AI" - Build for the problem, not the technology
(36:50) - Full stack first, APIs over time
(40:14) - If you want to be early you have to be full stack
(48:28) - Long term orientation
(50:56) - What one thing would you work on now
(55:41) - End
Fraser & Nabeel explore what it means to build great products in this new world of AI.
Two former founders, now VCs, have an off-the-cuff conversation with friends about the new AI products that are worth trying, emerging patterns, and how founders are navigating a world that’s changing every week.
Fraser is the former Head of Product at OpenAI, where he managed the teams that shipped ChatGPT and DALL-E, and is now an investor at Spark Capital. Nabeel is a former founder and CEO, now an investor at Spark, and has served on the boards of Discord, Postmates, Cruise, Descript, and Adept.
It's like your weekly dinner party on what's happening in artificial intelligence.
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