Ask the A&Ps

• "If that doesn't work you've got the flame thrower option"

  Ever wonder how the flap system in a Cessna works? This episode Mike, Paul, and Colleen take a deep dive on the system, plus engine vibrations, leaning for high altitude takeoffs and go arounds, and getting bees out of a restoration. Email [email protected] for a chance to be on the show. Join the world's largest aviation community at aopa.org/join Full notes below: Ken is experiencing vibrations in his Cherokee at certain throttle settings. After installing an engine monitor he discovered that with the throttle at roughly 90 percent full he could induce the vibration, but then quell it by using the mixture. He could see that a cylinder was going offline at full rich, but came back online when leaned. Mike suggests that he needs to lean in the climb to compensate for the overly rich mixture, but Ken said he’s also able to stop the vibration by reducing the throttle setting but keeping the mixture full rich. The hosts still think he’s too rich. They recommend leaning in the climb and keeping the EGT constant as he climbs. Ken also noticed that the cylinder that goes offline is also an outlier on the engine monitor. They tell him to do a GAMI lean test and an induction leak test to try and isolate whether he has a problem or just a poor mixture distribution. Find the test Mike described on Youtube: https://youtu.be/_VfiPuheeGw For more on the induction leak test Paul described: https://www.savvyaviation.com/wp-content/uploads/savvy_pdf/Savvy-Flight-Test-Profile-Expanded.pdf Marcus has a first generation Cirrus and he wants to ensure he is leaning properly for high-altitude takeoffs. Paul said to put his EGT around 1,300 or 1,350 degrees, which will put him close to the Cirrus chart, but is more accurate. For high altitude go arounds, Paul knows his fuel flow at around 1,300 degrees EGT, so he just sets the fuel flow to the expected amount. Luke has been having an issue with the flaps coming down in his 182. What follows is a loooooonnng and detailed description of the Cessna flap system. Blythe was restoring his family’s Cessna 150 and found a bunch of mud daubers. The inspection panels allowed him to clean out some, but he assumes there are more that he couldn’t reach. Paul said the potential corrosion is a key to the solution. He said the bees don’t like to build nests on corrosion inhibitors. He also said to make sure to check up the vertical stabilizer, which is a popular spot. Mike said he’s had luck with moth balls in other machinery.

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  1:05:24
• "Your airplane is on a full-time IV drip"

  Can one high oil pressure reading forever alter your engine? Mike, Paul, and Colleen answer this question, plus the quirks of the O-470, compression test redemption, and repairman certificates. Email [email protected] for a chance to be on the show. Join the world's largest aviation community at aopa.org/join Full notes below: Everett is wondering if his oil pressure is forever altered. He has a Piper Colt with an O-235. The pressure used to be 75 psi, and on a flight the oil temp spiked and the pressured went up to 85 psi. Even after cylinder work, the temperature and pressure have remained high. Paul starts by asking if he’s sure the indications are correct. They suspect a blockage somewhere, although there’s no oil cooler on the O-235. They suggest getting a manual to check for the engine’s entire oil pathway and follow it to see if he can find a blockage. Randall wants to know if the hosts are too hard on compression tests. He asks whether they hold any value. Mike said there’s no harm in doing compression tests, but that one should never change or overhaul a cylinder with compression numbers alone. Knowing where the air is escaping does offer some value, they say. There’s not much you can discover on a compression test that you wouldn’t discover on a borescope inspection that impacts safety of flight, Paul said. Manuel asks how EGT and fuel flow relate on his Cessna 180. He’s seeing a spike in EGTs before they come down again on takeoff. The low compression O-470 will have higher EGTs, especially on takeoff. Mike said Manuel's engine monitor is configured for a carbureted engine, and thus puts a big time delay and smoothing function on the fuel flow. Without the smoothing, the fuel flow would wobble up and down often, making it hard to read. That’s why fuel flow indications rise so slowly after adding takeoff power. And bu slowly adding power, Manuel is delaying the addition of the enrichment function of the carb, which is why he’s seeing a delay for the EGTs coming down. Marty is trying to understand repairman certification limitations. He’s done some work on his prop, magnetos, and so on, and he wants to make sure it’s all been legal. Mike said as he understands it, you basically have unlimited authority to do what you want on your airplane. The common sense rule applies, which is to get a demo or some instruction before you do it for the first time.

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  1:08:56
• "You don’t know if he’s going to hit you with a wrench or a lawsuit"

  Should you overhaul an engine based on oil analysis? The hosts answer this question, plus fuel pumps, valve grinding, and a pesky hot cylinder. Email [email protected] for a chance to be on the show. Join the world's largest aviation community at aopa.org/join Full notes below: David is worried about the relatively new IO-470 in his Bonanza. His oil analysis history shows a lot of aluminum, and recently, high on all metals. The narrative said to check for crankcase fretting. Paul said he would check the torque on the through bolts for piece of mind. Mike said he’s not particularly concerned about any of the numbers on the report. He said oil analysis is only a trend monitoring system. Once you establish a baseline you look for major diversions from the report. Colleen disagrees and said they aren’t stable, but have been increasing. There’s nothing that would cause all numbers to go up unless there’s dirt or a bad sample. Paul then details how David can use his borescope to look at the cam, a few lobes, lifters, and so on. It might not give him any information, but it could give him some reassurance that things are ok. Colleen suggests inspecting the pick-up screen if he can. Mike said he would never tear down an engine based on an oil report. Maurice wants to know about the fuel pump on his Mooney M20J with a Continental IO-550. He has an altitude compensating fuel pump, and he wants to know how to use it. Mike explains that it automatically leans for you in the climb. Once he’s ready to lean in cruise, it’s time to lean manually. Jared is ready to start grinding some valves. As he gets deeper into lapping valves in place, he’s wondering what sort of threats there are. Is it maintenance to the extent of being subjected to potential maintenance induced failures? Is it better to wait until a valve needs it, or could it be done pre-emptively? Mike said he wouldn’t necessarily do it pre-emptively, but if he sees any sort of potential deposits then it can be worth doing it. Paul said they go through an inspection process afterwards, including making sure the grinding compound is cleaned up as well as possible, that the valve keeper is properly in place, and that the bolts holding the rocker shaft holds are torqued properly. Paul said it’s critical to get another set of eyes and not check yourself. The hosts haven’t heard of any failures from lapping. Chris has an O-540 in his Cherokee 6 that was recently overhauled. His number 6 cylinder spikes up to 450 degrees CHT on takeoff and he can’t figure out why. Mike looked at his data going back before the current engine and found that even the old engine had high temps on number 6. Chris finds that the cylinder also run the leanest. Paul suggests it could be an induction leak.

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  1:09:51
• "There's a serious brain drain in aviation maintenance"

  A 182 mysteriously losses power and the hosts struggle to explain why. Plus, basic engine temperature theory, confusing ADs, and why it's so hard to find good help these days. Email [email protected] for a chance to get on the show. Join the world's largest aviation community at aopa.org/join Full notes below: Andrey was flying low and slow on autopilot for a mission when he noticed the airspeed dropping. He saw a drop in rpm, and an increase in manifold pressure. He also saw very low oil pressure. He added power, climbed, and returned to the airport. After landing, he checked the oil level and everything was fine. On a run-up check after talking to his mechanic, the engine stumbled. A new oil pressure sensor seemed to have fixed the issue, but he’s wondering if that’s really what was wrong. The hosts agree that it sounds like Andrey was having two issues because a drop in oil pressure shouldn’t impact engine performance. A big drop, or complete loss, will impact the prop governor, but not in the way Andrey experienced. After looking at the data they wonder if there was also something working through the oil pressure relief valve. Willie has a Cessna 310T and is confused about the exhaust AD. He’s getting conflicting information from mechanics and 310 experts. Mike was involved in the fight surrounding this AD, which is so confusing that the FAA had to issue an SAIB after the AD to explain it further. Yet the community is still confused, with the top Twin Cessna shops divided on when the AD should be complied with. Mike said it’s his opinion that it happen at overhaul. Others believe it’s 12 years. Andy is a maintenance manager and wants to know how to teach troubleshooting skills. Paul said in his experience techs can troubleshoot in their heads, do it via manuals and diagrams, or not do it at all. The process should not be, let’s go change this part and see what happens, he said. It should be, let’s go test something and see what we learn from the result. Relatively few mechanics are talented diagnosticians, Mike says. It requires a different skill set. Mike discusses Savvy Aviation’s new mechanic troubleshooting service they are working on. Royce wants to know if power equals risk. For example, if you have a higher compression engine or a turbo engine that produces more heat, will that impact EGT? Are peaks different based on the engine? Mike said CHT is basically measuring how much heat is present during the power stroke, while the EGT is measuring how much energy is being wasted out the back door. Paul said you can see this with an in-flight mag check when EGT goes up and CHT goes down. Running on only one plug shows how it’s more wasteful. Compression ratio is the big determining factor in the level of peak EGT. A higher compression engine will waste less heat, and thus have lower EGTs.

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  1:04:12
• "Check it, log it, and then relax"

  Can you have a prop strike without a prop? This is one of the more unusual questions the hosts have faced. They also track down a carbon monoxide leak, advise on Continental rpm settings, and help an owner who likely had a pre-ignition event. Email [email protected] for a chance to be on the show. Join the world's largest aviation community at aopa.org/join Full notes below: Robert is an A&P who is trying to help a flight school track down a carbon monoxide leak in a Cherokee. An instructor had a carbon monoxide event, took up a monitor, and found that it was reading at least 300 ppm. The exhaust and heater shroud were replaced, but the cabin was still getting more than 10 ppm. He’s wondering if there is a maximum level allowed in aircraft. Mike said Car 3 didn’t have a maximum, but that Part 23 says 50 ppm is the allowed maximum under current regulations. Hypoxia and carbon monoxide are cumulative, and he said his current comfort is below 20 ppm. He also said leaning impacts CO levels. Peak or lean of peak EGT lowers CO. How it gets in is a bit of a mystery sometimes. He said there was a case where Mooneys with air conditioning were drawing in air from the intake on the side of the airplane. Paul said in a Cherokee it comes in via the forward wing attach point. There is supposed to be insulation to stop it from coming into this area, but over time they are taken out or lost. It’s often not from the engine compartment. It’s through the belly or downstream from the exhaust pipe. John wonders if you can have a prop strike without a prop on the engine. He bought an RV9 with the engine on, but no propeller. He loaded it into the back of a box truck. Stopping partway to check on it, he found the tie-down straps had slipped and the airplane had be banging around in the truck. He’s wondering if he should be concerned, and what he should be checking for. Paul said to put a dial indicator on it and check to make sure it’s less than .005. Some of the bolts on the Van’s prop simulator were lose, and one was hard to screw back in. Paul said he would be surprised if there was any damage. Jesse has a 310 with Continental engines and he’s wondering about the service bulletin that recommends maintaining 2300 RPM in cruise. Previously the hosts said it’s probably good advice when rich of peak, but you could ignore it lean of peak. He wonders if he should go lean of peak first, and then pull the prop back, or is going to a lower rpm first ok? Mike thinks it’s sufficiently brief that it won’t make a difference. Rick had an infant mortality issue with his Mooney. His A&P found valve wear, oil though the rings, and corrosion on the engine, which only had a few hundred hours. He did a top overhaul, flew for 27 hours with the propre break-in procedure. About 30 hours later he got a high CHT indication on a descent, followed by dropping oil pressure. The belly was coated with oil and only 2.5 quarts were left. They found broken rings on 3 of the cylinders. They took off the electronic ignition, but are looking for ideas as to what may have happened. Mike found Rick’s data, which showed the CHT event was in cylinder #1, and the temperature rose at around .7 degrees per second. That approaches Savvy’s rule of thumb that anything at a rate of a degree per second or higher is a pre-ignition event. The hosts think it's possible the electronic ignition was the culprit. He thinks the broken rings may be an unrelated event. Colleen said improper ring installation could have caused the new ones to break She also suggests checking to make sure he doesn’t have a cracked plug.

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  1:16:32

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