Faith Matters

• Listening to Women: Jared Halverson hosts Aubrey Chaves, Kathryn Knight Sonntag, and Bethany Brady Spalding

  Today we’re bringing you a special conversation hosted by Jared Halverson, who’s joined by three women—Bethany Brady Spalding, Kathryn Knight Sonntag, and me—who’ve been part of a larger, ongoing conversation sparked by one of Jared’s recent videos on social media.If you haven’t seen the video, here’s the context: Jared highlighted the recent trend of women leaving the Church in greater numbers than men and encouraged women to stay, he connects this to D&C 25, highlighting how much depends on them. His message, meant to be supportive and hopeful, was heard by many as hurtful and dismissive—particularly by women who feel their voices and gifts are too often sidelined or unseen. The response was overwhelming. Thousands of women responded with honesty, vulnerability, and a shared sense of grief for the ways they’ve been asked to carry the Church while too often being denied a real seat at the table.To his credit, Jared didn’t get defensive. Just a few days later, he posted a real, heartfelt apology, then did something even more rare and brave: he asked if he could sit down, ask questions, and just listen.That’s what this episode is.What unfolds is a conversation about pain, power, partnership, and the potential for something more whole. We talk about what “spiritual collaboration” might really look like—not just in our doctrine, which includes the radical and often untapped vision of Heavenly Parents—but in our lived experience. We ask what it means for women to be invited not just to support the work, but to shape it. And we explore what changes when women are actually believed—when their longing to be seen, to lead, and to offer their full selves to the body of Christ is not framed as rebellion, but as righteousness.Jared holds this space with humility and openness, and Bethany, Kathryn, and I tried to speak from our own experiences—not as representatives of all women, but as people who love this tradition and believe it can do even more to reach its highest, holiest potential. We believe, as one commenter put it, that this isn’t a crisis of belief—it’s an opportunity for renewal.This episode is tender, and we also think it’s hopeful. We hope it models the kind of listening and learning that we need more of—at home, in our wards, and across the Church.And with that, we’ll jump right into the conversation.Amy McPhie Allebest articleSexual Violence in UtahBest Practices for Collaborative Partnership

  --------  

  1:01:40
• The Blessings of a Quirky Ward - with James Goldberg

  We have a really fun episode for you today—We’re talking with James Goldberg about his delightful book Tales of the Chelm First Ward, which he co-wrote with his, wife Nicole Wilkes Goldberg, and his brother, Mattathias Singh.The book is a collection of fictional stories set in a Latter-day Saint ward in the imagined town of Chelm—a nod to Jewish folklore and the famous “village of fools.” The humor is wonderfully absurd but beneath the silliness is something powerful and profound.In this conversation, we explore what might be called a theology of humor. James reflects on how laughter opens us. It softens the edges of our seriousness and rigidity, and draws us closer in shared connection. He reminded us that not everything about “church culture” needs to be critiqued or stripped away—sometimes it can be embraced with lightness and joy, as part of what brings us together and helps us live in community. The idea that stayed with us most was this: maybe what makes a ward great isn’t how aligned everyone is theologically or politically, or how smoothly things run, or how polished people are in their callings. Maybe it’s just about creating a group of people who are all rooting for each other—through the everyday moments, the imperfect efforts, and the callings that stretch us. It’s about showing up with love, having each other’s backs, and learning to see one another the way God does—with patience, grace, and deep affection.We hope this episode might just help you love your ward a little more—with all its quirks and imperfections. We hope it helps you see the people around you with a little more grace, a little more humor, and a little more tenderness.And with that, here’s our conversation with James Goldberg.https://www.wayfaremagazine.org/p/tales-of-the-chelm-first-ward-introductionAffiliate link for Chelm: https://bookshop.org/a/108982/9781961471030 

  --------  

  58:42
• The Path of Descent - A Conversation with Mike Petrow

  This week, we’re joined by Mike Petrow, who serves as the Director of Formation, Faculty Relations, and Theological Foundations at the Center for Action and Contemplation. The CAC is a nonprofit founded by Father Richard Rohr that introduces seekers to the contemplative Christian path of transformation.Mike is intimately involved with the CAC’s Living School, a core educational offering from the CAC that last year offered a course called Essentials of Engaged Contemplation that Tim and I participated in. Mike is one of the primary hosts in the conversations that make up much of the program, often conversing with people like Richard Rohr and our friend Brian McLaren. Frankly, we found the work that Mike and the rest of the CAC team did on this course to be truly life-changing, and engaging it has been one of the most uplifting and transformative spiritual experiences we’ve had in our lives. In addition to his work at the CAC, Mike holds degrees (including a PhD) in psychology, mythology, and religious studies.This conversation is a sample of just how deeply insightful Mike is. He invited us to see curiosity as something “implanted in our hearts by God”—not as a threat to faith, but as an invitation to let the divine meet us in unexpected ways. He challenged the idea that “community is formed around uniformity of belief” and instead argued that real connection happens when we learn to be with each other, even in our differences  — that everyone belongs even, or perhaps especially, when they fall somehow outside the norm. And he brought so much depth to the idea of the wounded healer —“if you deeply commit to your own healing,” Mike told us, “at a certain point you realize it’s not just for you.”In one of the most powerful moments of this conversation, Mike describes a moment of profound loss—sitting at his mother’s bedside as she passed away—and then, just hours later, holding his newborn niece for the first time. These moments of symmetry revealed a truth that is at the heart of this entire conversation: that loss, and grief, and pain carve out a space in our hearts that can eventually be filled with love, joy and connection.We hope this conversation offers the same sense of healing, hope, and clarity that it did for us. And with that, let’s jump into this beautiful conversation with Mike Petrow.Thanks so much for listening, and we want to send a huge thanks to Mike for coming on. For those of you who might have been wondering more about the Living School, the Essentials of Engaged Contemplation that Aubrey and I participated in, the course is not currently open for enrollment, but if you’re interested in learning more or getting updates, you can head to cac.org.And if Faith Matters content is resonating with you and you get a chance, we’d love for you to leave us a rating or review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. We love reading reviews and they definitely help get the word about about Faith Matters.Thanks again for listening, and as always, you can check out more at faithmatters.org.

  --------  

  1:02:16
• A Counter-culture of Love - A Conversation with David French

  This week, we’re excited to share a conversation between Zach Davis and New York Times columnist and author David French.David French began his career as a constitutional litigator, with a special focus on religious liberty. He has since become known for his thoughtful, principled political writing, having worked previously for The National Review, The Dispatch and The Atlantic. In their conversation today, David emphasizes the need for Christians to move from a fear-based political culture to one centered on care and compassion for our neighbors—and that instead of seeking political control or domination, Christians should embrace equality for Americans of any or no religion. David also addresses the rise in misinformation and distrust in institutions, highlighting the importance of truth-seeking and constructive political engagement. He concludes with a prayer that Christians will reject the politics of fear and help renew the world by living a counter-culture of love. Wherever you find yourself across the political spectrum, we hope this conversation offers an empowering way forward—one grounded compassion. And with that, let’s jump into our conversation with David French.

  --------  

  1:02:00
• The Ongoing Tug-of-War Between Tradition and Change - A Conversation with Jeff Strong

  This week, we’re welcoming back our good friend Jeff Strong.Last year, Jeff and his team sent out a survey to the Faith Matters audience as part of a larger research project on faith and church participation. Over 1,600 of you responded, and the results were fascinating! We’re excited to share them with you today. What emerged was a picture of a significant and often unheard cross-section of the Church—a community of people who are deeply devoted but also wrestling, holding both conviction and complexity, faith and struggle, all at once.In this conversation, Jeff walks us through some of the most powerful insights from the survey, with a special focus on culture and aspects of our faith experience that are shaping our sense of belonging, meaning, and connection. He explores what people love most about being part of this tradition, where they encounter real challenges.One of the clearest themes in the survey is the tension between tradition and change—a familiar story in faith traditions across the world. Jeff explores what it means to hold that complexity well, in our families, community, and our own hearts. He addresses the power of finding others who are walking a similar path, and why recognizing we’re not alone in this wrestle can be so meaningful.I want to mention that there are a few visuals in this conversation that Jeff does a great job describing but you can see the slides he talks about in the YouTube version of this episode. To everyone who participated in the survey, thank you. It has been such a gift to see that none of us is alone here. We’re so grateful to be in it with you—asking hard questions, holding onto what we love, and finding our way forward together. And with that, here’s our conversation with Jeff Strong.

  --------  

  1:16:12

More Religion & Spirituality podcasts

Trending Religion & Spirituality podcasts

About Faith Matters