Jefferson Fisher on How to Have Difficult Conversations
How do you handle conflict?
If you said “not well,” let conversation expert Jefferson Fisher offer you practical tips for navigating difficult conversation. And there’s good news: if you’re afraid of conflict, you don’t have to be.
Jefferson Fisher is an attorney, author, and a bonafide conversation expert. His videos–about conversation and communication–serve an audience of over 6 million on Instagram, and 1 million on TikTok. And for good reason: Fisher’s ease of conversation and human psychology in communication provides opportunities for everyone to learn how to talk to each other better with more honesty and curiosity.
Russell and Jefferson also make the connection that Jesus himself–who asks questions, answers slowly, and speaks with assured calmness–provides excellent examples of engaging in effective conversation in controversy.
Get ready to make notes, because this conversation will provide you with heaps of practical takeaways for immediate application. Including how to be a safe person for your children to turn to, what to say in times of marital conflict, and how to effectively set boundaries without shutting down a conversation.
If you’ve ever thought that you’re not good at having difficult conversations, you might be emboldened to try it out after you listen to this episode.
Resources mentioned in this episode or recommended by the guest include:
The Next Conversation by Jefferson Fisher
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Nicholas Carr on Building Attention in a Digital Age
Doomscrolling, algorithms, artificial intelligence—these concepts have become so familiar to us and such a part of our everyday monotony that they’ve become jokes.
But Nicholas Carr isn’t laughing.
Carr’s work in tech journalism has given him a front-row seat to watch the shift of culture around technology over the last decade. His recent book, Superbloom: How Technologies of Connection Tear Us Apart, explores his observations—and the news isn’t great. Online platforms and algorithms seem to know us better than our churches, families, or friends do—especially when the products we glanced at for a fleeting moment now fill our timelines and social media feeds.
But we already knew that, right?
And still we face obstacles to capture our own conscious minds. Carr’s work is a call for a cultural revolution to reclaim the human experience from the clutches of technology. Especially when what’s at stake is the understanding of community, which finds its roots in the ability to focus to form empathy for others.
This conversation shines a light on the profound need for deeper connections and the importance of attention in fostering meaningful relationships. Moore and Carr also talk about the mirage of screens as socialization, an AI priest (whose story doesn’t end well), positive outcomes from machines and technology (gasp! Is it possible?), and the way separating from technology might feel an awful lot like excommunication.
If you need to be emboldened to cut your screen time or make a change in the way you use technology for your sake and the sake of future generations, this conversation may be the thing you need.
Resources mentioned in this episode or recommended by the guest include:
Superbloom: How Technologies of Connection Tear Us Apart by Nicholas Carr
“The Vacation” Wendell Berry poem
The Empathy Diaries by Sherry Turkle
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Yuval Levin Provides Hope for American Unity
For Independence Day, we are running an episode of particular relevance from our archives.
Could the Constitution provide the antidote to polarization?
Yuval Levin thinks so. The director of social, cultural, and constitutional studies at the American Enterprise Institute, Levin is the author of a new book titled American Covenant. In it, and during this episode, Levin identifies the reasons people feel as though America is at a breaking point, as well as meaningful opportunities for reuniting.
He and Moore consider why fragmentation is happening, the naiveté of cynicism, and ways the party system has—and hasn’t—worked well for the United States. They discuss partisanship, the potential upsides of ranked-choice voting in primaries, and the importance of seeing one another not primarily as political beings but as human beings.
Yuval Levin’s work:
American Covenant, How the Constitution Unified Our Nation—and Could Again by Yuval Levin
American Enterprise Institute
National Affairs
The New Atlantis
National Review
The New York Times
Resources mentioned in this episode or recommended by the guest include:
The Abolition of Man by C. S. Lewis
Hillbilly Elegy: A Memoir of a Family and Culture in Crisis by J. D. Vance
“My Unsettling Interview with Steve Bannon” by David Brooks
The West Wing: “Night Five”
The Sword and the Trowel by Charles Spurgeon
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Gary Haugen on Gospel and Justice
Gary Haugen has seen the darkest things imaginable. He’s spent decades fighting human traffickers, corrupt governments, and mobs that enslave men, women, and children to sell them for sex and profit. But he’s not one bit cynical.
As president of International Justice Mission, Haugen has worked to abolish modern-day slavery and to put the bad guys in jail while building the kind of institutions that ensure people are never treated that way again.
In this episode, Russell and Haugen discuss the objection that “justice issues” distract from the gospel. They also talk about how people can know whether God is calling them to some area of justice and mercy and about how those who are doing this kind of work can keep from burnout or despair.
Haugen quoted from C. S. Lewis’s Screwtape Letters: “Despair is a greater sin than any of the sins which provoke it.” He talks about how he learned from the writings of Dallas Willard and others the kinds of spiritual disciplines he needs to stay grounded and hopeful.
The two also talk about going to church 13 times a week, the complex psychology of an oppressor, the power of art and music to move us to action, practical steps toward seeking justice, and of course, Wendell Berry.
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Moore to the Point: Make Armageddon Great Again
Are we in the last days? Yes. Everything from the empty tomb onward are the last days.
Could Jesus return at any moment? Absolutely.
But can we track that coming based on the bombing schedules of Israel or Iran? No.
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Listen in as Russell Moore, director of Christianity Today’s Public Theology Project and Editor-in-Chief, talks about the latest books, cultural conversations and pressing ethical questions that point us toward the kingdom of Christ.
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